One of those things

[fredericks]

I'm on My LJ, arguably the best bit of revamping the Goat people have done (although 100 icons for paid users is plenty nifty as well), checking to see if someone on my FL has a birthday coming up and, as I'm wont to do, I look over the random user entry. What I find is this wonderfully eloquent post on dealing with a relationship that has ended and how powerful relationships never really end. I'm reading it and I'm nodding to myself, saying "yes, EXACTLY, this is just how I felt when X Y Z" and I'm literally moved to tears at one point (I really have been crying entirely too much lately; I have no idea what's come over me). So before I reply and tell this person how wonderful I thought their entry curiosity moves to check out the gentleman's user information. I find the usual pseudo-deep musing and then, in the middle of all of it, this line: [l]ost my spot at Yale to an underpriviledged minority with a BMW. I'm not bitter, of course. I paraphrase the last sentence slightly, but I'll never forget that first one. It dun smacked me in the jaw. That and his libertarian and conservative republican interests clued me in - yup, dude's an ass. Or, to clean that up - he and I have completely different views on the world. *ahem*

Comments

[1x2foralways.livejournal.com]

Wow. People are truly giving this world a bad reputation, not to mention a horrible name. Everyone wonders why I come across as "anti-social" sometimes.

And I'm sorry you've been feeling particularly down lately. Feel free to call me if you ever, ever need to talk. 732-343-2399

I hope you're feeling better soon.

[fredericks.livejournal.com]

I'm feeling okay. Not too bad, really. Like you, the windy rainy weather has got me a little melancholy. Nothing some gothic poetry won't stoke to a roaring flame of EMO EMO EMO help disperse.

Thanks for the offer, L. You're a sweetheart.

[1x2foralways.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I figured the weather had something to do with it. It's been crazy! Unseasonably warm one day to incredibly yucky and cold the next...it's too much to bear, sometimes.

And you're very welcome. I'm here for you always.

[melancthe.livejournal.com]

I have this from time to time - I read posts on my Friends of Friends page and I'm smitten by the poster's sense of humour or ability to move me, and then I check out the user info and I realise that we have nothing in common. That's always more of a disappointment somehow, because you've already formed a positive impression of the person. Although I have to say I'm pointing-and-laughing at Mr "those damn underprivileged minorities"'s whininess. :)

And I didn't even realise that there was a random journal component on MyLJ. Thank you for mentioning it!

[fredericks.livejournal.com]

I thought it gnarly, the random box. Little windows into the lives of total strangers without the work. *grin*

I don't think I left disappointed so much as sad. It always makes me feel bad for someone when I see them spouting something that, for all extent and purpose, is utter nonsense (racist or otherwise). Get over yourself - you didn't get in and you'll never know why. To say that you lost a spot implies you were guaranteed one in the first place. That's not how things work...unless mommy or daddy pay $20 million and stick a building on campus. Poor sad sack. He was so eloquent too. All respect - gone.

[melancthe.livejournal.com]

The whole "I lost a spot to an underprivileged group, waaah" mentality is very common here in South Africa. We've had a democratic government for twelve years now (wow, time flies!), and I'm getting really sick of the apparently endless number of people who bitch and moan because of how employment equity affects them. What they really mean is "I'm pissed off because I can't get a well-paid cushy job just because I'm white any more". There's that underlying suggestion that jobs and positions in universities/sports teams are being given to the undeserving and unwashed masses instead of to the obviously more intelligent elite, and it infuriates me. And I swear I'm going to smack the next person who says "formerly disadvantaged people" while making quotation marks in the air and pulling a cynical face.

... er, I'm sorry, I just ranted in your journal! I brought my tissues, so I'll clean up after myself. :)

*sigh*

[mzzzunderstood.livejournal.com]

good lord, we're considered 'minorities' in freaking South Africa? what is going on around here?!

Re: *sigh*

[fredericks.livejournal.com]

? She never uses the word "minority" to refer to black South Africans in her comment.

[fredericks.livejournal.com]

:) No reason to apologize. I do love hearing your thoughts on the topic. I've been thinking on the issue for most of the night. There's this assumption that all discrimination and effects of it (and, you know, 300 years of slavery) disappeared as soon as Martin Luther King showed up. It's really hard to point out that is hasn't in this country to someone who never has to face them.

I knew you'd have a different yet similar perspective on it being in SA. Thank you for chiming in. You're like a multi-faceted jewel of greatest. Ignoring the odd composer lust, of course.

[brooklynknight.livejournal.com]

I'm gonna pull the PC siren here.

I think he has every right to be bitter. Politicians have allowed affirmative action into place so they can hide behind it and claim the land is equal so they can still get votes and what not, but it doesnt equal things out at all.
Affirmative action will never ever ever make racism and hate and fear between the races go away, quite the opposite it inspires more. The guy in question i sa good example.

If two people are equal in everyway in terms of talent and education, then they should be chosen based on their personality, first impression and other factors that only a human can determine. Factors that should be a clear benefit for the organization they are joining.

In order to "look good" many companies end up hiring underqualified minorities so they can fill quotas.

Look whats happening with the police an fire departments right now.
Certain politicans and black intrest groups are trying to get the testing requirements LOWERED. LOWERED. They are trying to LOWER THE BAR, to lower the standard! What kind of message does that send to minorities? "WE know you cant add up, but dont worry, we'll use our power and clout to get you in anyway, even if it ends up putting peoples lives in danger! We deserve it!"

They should be starting educational and athletic programs to help those minorities train and pass the test, nay SURPASS the test. Instead they are trying to make the test easier.

Its wrong. Its not really equal, and in the end everyone is cheated. All people, all races. In the end my country, my state, and my city are the ones who get hurt.

The one thing I'm willing to concede here is that the guy shouldnt feel entitled in the first place. He's got too much ego. But, I wish I could see a list of everyone that got in and how well they graded. Oh well, not gonna happen, its a moot point.

[fredericks.livejournal.com]

Affirmative action was put into place as a way to attempt to amend for years of discrimination against minorities in this country. Segregation ended on paper less than 40 years ago. That's more or less one generation. Years of being denied education and job positions needed to obtain what white America may consider "the norm" when it comes to housing/opportunities for children in education/what have you. At its best it's a way to give minorities an opportunity at a position/place where they may not be otherwise and *give the upcoming generation examples they can strive for*. That's key, I think.

Certain politicans and black intrest groups are trying to get the testing requirements LOWERED. LOWERED. They are trying to LOWER THE BAR, to lower the standard! What kind of message does that send to minorities? "WE know you cant add up, but dont worry, we'll use our power and clout to get you in anyway, even if it ends up putting peoples lives in danger! We deserve it!"
Come on. Do you honestly think the standard will be lowered enough so that lives will be put on the line? That's why there are so many women firefighters, huh? And the "we deserve it" you tacked on at the end there is rather questionable. I would suggest you look into how years of discrimination and being devalued can affect a people before you start making it seem like blacks walk around with a sense of priviledge.

And as to the specific example I cited - no way does he have a right to be bitter.
1. He has no idea why he didn't get into Yale. No one, not after OR before AA was told why or how they didn't manage to get into a school, *particularly* an Ivy League school. His presumptuous statement is based solely on conjecture on his part. I got the feeling he had a minority classmate who got into Yale and he felt the student took his "spot". Schools generally do not say they'll take X amount of students from any school. They choose you based on whatever criteria they have.
2. Again, to say "his spot" was "taken" is to imply he would have, in fact, gotten into Yale...NAY was already IN the school and then some minority up and pulled the rug out from under him. Mighty ballsy to think you're in from jump, huh? Priviledge.

Its wrong. Its not really equal, and in the end everyone is cheated.
If you go around thinking the minorities working in your chosen facility or school got there because standards were lowered the only person you're cheating is yourself.

And how is it PC of me to assert the guy's statement is assholey and presumptuous based on something he has no damn idea about? I've been dealing with the whole "you only got into school because you're black" thing my entire life and, frankly, I've come to recognize asshole when I see it.

[eleventyteen.livejournal.com]

Why would this guy be bitter about the one black kid with a BMW "taking" his spot when thousands of white people took spots that could have been his too? People automatically assume that its minorities are unqualified and got a boost to get in, never mind all the unqualified white kids who got in because of money or relatives, or the fact that they weigh in favor of public school education, even though a private school kid's raw stats might be better. Put together, they by far outnumber the black kids who got in "because they're black".

Not to mention, minority status doesn't automatically guarantee admission or even close to it. The black kids who get in are more than qualified to learn at the school. For those who don't already have it, they take into account the fact that blacks are less likely to have access to the extra resources that give highly qualified candidates that extra edge, like private schools or better public schools because of the way funding is distributed.

The system isn't perfect, but something that few people will openly admit, is that ususally, for a black person and a white person of a similar position, standing in the same place, the black person had to fight harder for it.

[brooklynknight.livejournal.com]

I disagree. I belive that TODAY, if a black and white person are equally qualified for a job, and the black guy doesnt get it, all he has to do is cry descrimination, and if that company doesnt happen to have a large amount of minorities working there he'll win even if racism wasnt involved.

Affirmative Action was a START. It opened doors and paved highways, but its time to phase it out and to leave society to its own ways. If people dont learn to tolerate one another without being forced too..then we as a society dont deserve to exist.

Just ask the Cylons....

Hmm

[keeni84.livejournal.com]

*sigh*

Just last year there was a study done in New York City that said businesses hired white, male, ex-cons who'd just gotten out of prison over black men with no prison record.

Black men with no criminal record were given callbacks at HALF the rate of white men with criminal records.

I love how you say that all a black guy has to do is "cry racism"...as if he has nothing better to do. What? We all sit around with our non-qualified asses trying to get jobs at Fortune 500 companies? THAT DOESNT HAPPEN.

WHO IS GOING TO APPLY FOR A JOB THEY ARENT QUALIFIED FOR???????

Get this: Affirmative Action gives people WITH EQUAL QUALIFICATIONS the same chance.

I don't know what you people heard about Affirmative Action, but I don't know WHERE you got the whole "unqualified" bit. Maybe it's because of your OWN prejudices that make you think that black people are unqualified for the positions they apply for.

People like you make me sick--NO REALLY.

Re: Hmm

[brooklynknight.livejournal.com]

Listen, calm the fuck down ok? People apply for jobs they arent qualified for all the time. All people of all races do it.

Affirmative Action is supposed to give people with equal qualifications the same chance but it doesnt. It gives minorities a BETTER chance be it they are equally qualified or not.

I'd like to you to link this study to back up your "facts". And even if they are true, affirmative action wont fix that. Forcing someone to hire an individual they dont want only creates resentment, hostile work enviroments and more racism.

I'm not making generalizations about all black people. I'm talking about specific situations. With specific circumstances. I'm intentionally trying to be narrow in what I say because I DONT want to generalize because none of this is true across the board.

I'm entitled to my opinion and my opinion doesnt make me prejiduced or racist. I want true equality for everyone. I dont want things to be forced. People need to stop viewing the world as white and black and brown and slanty eyed.

As far as I'm concerned the only shit that stuff is good for is a comedy routine. Stereotypes can be true, and some are, but that doesnt make them right, and that doesnt mean society should reinforce them.

If you wanna be angry at me because I want to be on equal footing with you, go ahead. You're the one propegating racism and hate.

Re: Hmm

[fredericks.livejournal.com]

Annnnnd this exhange stops here.

Let's stop, shall we?

[fredericks.livejournal.com]

Do you think someone is going to take your points seriously if you end with People like you make me sick--NO REALLY. Not to mention all the shouting in your comment. I understand if you're angry about something that may have been said, but internet shouting isn't going to accomplish anything. The study you mentioned is very interesting, btw.

Re: Let's stop, shall we?

[fightingwords.livejournal.com]

aww, well check that out--you had a cuddly widdle bigot hanging out in your friends list and didn't even realize it. i hate stealth racism.

[xioley.livejournal.com]

Uh, yeah, that line. Ughughughugh. Today I cried in the shower after my boyfriend left because there wasn't enough time to go to the museum because we woke up too late. So there. We're both lame with the crying. Oh--and I also watched "Father of the Bride II". Full of lameness in far too many ways. And I cried again when the babies were born! Just sayin' there's lots of crying going on here. But for me. There's no real reason.

[fredericks.livejournal.com]

? Hormones?
I blame the milk.

I feel you, though. We must stem the waterworks. So unseemly to be spouting at the tear ducts all the time.

[snacktastic.livejournal.com]

Fucking Libertarian bullshit, I say. Let him cry his sour grapes about not going to Yale. And you know how I feel about the whole PC thing so I'll just hold myself back. But I remember this conversation between my sister and her husband:

Bob (husband): "I don't believe in Affirmative Action. I think that everyone should go on their own merit."

Tracy (my sister): "Well, you wouldn't believe in Affirmative Action, would you? You are a white male. You wouldn't really know that the world treats people unfairly."

(ps. like me and rest of my family, my sister believes in Aff. Act.If you were wondering the tone of her response.)

[fredericks.livejournal.com]

And you know how I feel about the whole PC thing so I'll just hold myself back.
Yup. So you kind of know what went through my mind when I saw that.

Tracy (my sister): "Well, you wouldn't believe in Affirmative Action, would you? You are a white male. You wouldn't really know that the world treats people unfairly."
If all those people that go around claiming minorities (read "blacks and hispanics") go around saying they "deserve" assistance from the government without merit or that the world treats them fairly they're just lacking in skill/talent could, for a week, take a walk in my shoes as a black woman and see the way I'm zeroed in on the minute I walk into an upscale store or note the fact that I'm one of the few black people in my school any of the things that makes simply having dark skin in this country changes the way you're treated maybe they'd stop being so pompous about the whole thing. I will never forget telling my HS class about times I've been discriminated against or had some racist act done against me blatantly and being told "oh no, you must have imagined that/ you're hyper-sensitive". WTF!
Oh man. It must be great to be in the majority.

Thanks for chiming in. It's very much appreciated. And I admire your fortitude in holding back, btw. :) It's a lovely day outside. Let me stop too before it's all lost in a veil of red rage.