(no subject)

[fredericks]

Hancock led to a rather inevitable race discussion with Middle Bro. I started things by pointing out that the makers of the movie neatly sidestepped direct mention of racial tension/discrimination against Hancock (played by Will Smith) and Mary (played by Charlize Theron) by labeling the people who perpetrated violence against the two characters "they". The ambiguous "they" who burned down their house in the Midwest in the 1850s and then beat Hancock with a baseball bat in the 1920s (and attempted to stab Mary in the B.C.'s, but who knows what may have been going down then). Anyone with a sense of the racial history of this country would know that an interracial couple would cause major waves in the US during those times (and, let's be honest, things ain't exactly hunky-dorey on the interracial front in the present day either). But not a peep in the script addressing it. Bro accepted it, saying "it wasn't important [to the story]", at which point my statement that the writers *chose* to make it not a part of the plot in order to keep the "feel good summer hit" status of the movie in check was met with "oh, you see everything according to race". Which is a damned frightening thing for me to hear from a young black man in this day and age. When did acknowledging race become a bad thing (btw, I'm going to go ballistic on the next person I hear say "I don't see race")? I know I'm trying to intellectualize a rather thin (if occasionally intriguing) "shit go BOOM" movie, but oh well.

If anything, the cut-and-paste feel of the movie leaves open the possibility that lots of stuff was conceived and fleshed out but left out at the last minute. The whole history of Hancock and Mary deserved a good ten minutes of unfolding instead of a two minute bit of verbal exposition. Hancock's rehabilitation, imo, shouldn't have been montaged. The establishment of Hancock's baddie? Could have happened with a little more plot padding. The ending? Pure sequel set-up. I think part of the reason I spent time thinking about things I wasn't too fond of was because I saw the kernel of a really amazing movie in Hancock. Like, "release in November and garner award buzz" amazing. But I guess that's Watchmen's job.

Comments

[cbackson.livejournal.com]

Whenever someone claims that they "don't see race," I feel like...nine times out of ten, they're about to say something racist.

It's between "I'm not a racist, but..." and "The Confederate flag is about heritage, not hate" on the Racist Things Bingo Card.

[fredericks.livejournal.com]

Whenever someone claims that they "don't see race," I feel like...nine times out of ten, they're about to say something racist.
I hear you. Like they think it gives them carte blanche to say something completely ignorant.

When people start up with "I don't see race because race is a social construct" they get a *smidge* more leeway than the folks that say "I don't see race; I'm colorblind". Stop shitting me, please. If you see race, acknowledge differences, and consciously attempt to minimize the impact on your thought process that's one thing. But that doesn't quite roll off the tongue.

[ellyssian.livejournal.com]

Well, I am colorblind. Really.

Reds and blues, in certain shades and hues, cause me a helluva lot of problems. Purple - which my daughter decided, many moons ago, was my favorite color - gives me a particularly hard time, especially when compared with blues of a similar level of darkness.

That said, I do see race, but I've never understood why people get so bent out of shape about it. I should correct that. I do see different skin colors and other surface traits, and they're all fine by me. Well, except for overly tanned-to-a-crisp-old-before-their-time blonde people. They kind of scare me.

The heritage of a person - nationality of their ancestors - is another point of interest to me, and I suppose I put more stock in that than "race". But it's all good, and I tend to like diversity. =)

[fredericks.livejournal.com]

My youngest brothers are colorblind as well, and we didn't find out until they were in 1st or 2nd grade. They send out the "your child is colorblind, please discourage them from proclaiming interest in being a pilot/air traffic controller/astronaut/etc etc when they're older" form letter, which is funny and harsh.

I've against big to-dos myself, but I'm a fan of discourse.

[captainschlumpy.livejournal.com]

Ah, so I'm guessing I'll be skipping this one. yeah, I internally cringe when I hear someone say,"I'm not racist but..." gag. People are different, difference in my opinion, is awesome! I think the baddies were "they" because people, especially in this country, tend to like to forget parts of the past where something aweful was perpetrated. Who wants to learn from the past? let's just pretend it never happened, that's more comfortable.

[fredericks.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'd say go all avoid-y on this movie. It might be worth a video looksie if you're curious, just because you really do get the sense that it could have been great. The "twist" (*grin* thanks to you I was actually aware there was one coming) was fun, but when the script hit explanation mode things took a couple of giant steps back.

I was just trying to point out that, because this was created by people, someone(s) had final say as to what was and wasn't mentioned, and they decided *not* to mention bigotry. My attempts to speculate why it was left out of the mix is what led to the argument with Bro and to this post. People are different, definitely. People that may appear similar are different too. That doesn't mean not talking about differences is going to make things all good in the 'hood, nor does it mean talking about differences will make everything fall apart.

[sibyline.livejournal.com]

i haven't seen "hancock" but this reminds me of the discourse surrounding "the bodyguard." i guess it's part of the fantasy that these movies are perpetuating that race doesn't have to be a factor in discussing interracial relationships. the problem is that this is just what it is, a fantasy, and i don't think any arguments about narrative emphasis in a movie changes the fact that the u.s. is a deeply racist country, which means that interracial relationships are always going to be a focal point of that racism, and that's not going to change anytime soon.

i also get super pissed-off with people who say they're colorblind. i just don't believe that anyone can live here for any reasonable period of time without developing racial biases. and denying them is a form of self-righteousness that i find extremely pernicious.

[fredericks.livejournal.com]

and i don't think any arguments about narrative emphasis in a movie changes the fact that the u.s. is a deeply racist country
Doesn't change it, that's true, but that's not to say that it can't help point out the fact to those who'd spent their time ignoring it. Why and/or why not. You have great points.

[army-kitten.livejournal.com]

i wasn't planning on seeing this film, even though i am a fan of will smith. okay really, i just think he's super sexy, but haven't been very into a lot of the movies he's in.

i think it's kinda fallacious, not to mention insulting, to "leave out" little details like the effects of racism in the U.S. (especially in the antebellum period?!?!) for the sake of a feel-good summer movie. er, what do you call it? "disneyfication"?

i haven't had to counter the "race is a social construct," argument in quite a while. i mean, it's one of those things where we can say it's not "real," and that's perfectly true, in the technical sense. but imo it's also true that something—racism—which has a real and often devastating impact on millions of people every day BECAUSE OF THIS SOCIAL CONSTRUCT pretty much negates the argument that "we" don't need to think about it.

though it seems most often that the people who want to argue that they don't see race don't see it because they're in a position of privilege and therefore can't see it or feel it. the same way a lot of men have no idea what female oppression feels like, personally, so it's easy for them to argue that it's not really there.

er, anyway. as you know, like anything else, the race issue is super complex, and inextricably woven with notions of culture, gender, and class. so it's not like it's easy to talk about it. the worst thing anyone can do, imo, is use some excuse to avoid talking about it or learn more about it or heaven forbid, open up their minds to the possibility that they might actually be wrong.

"i'm not racist, but..." usually prefaces the worst, most racist sh*t i've ever heard.

[sometimesdee.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the "social construct" becomes pretty fucking real when it becomes grounds for discrimination.

[army-kitten.livejournal.com]

replying for no other reason than to say your icon = LOL.

[fredericks.livejournal.com]

"i'm not racist, but..." usually prefaces the worst, most racist sh*t i've ever heard.
Any statement prefaced by "I'm [not] blank, but _____ " (or a reasonable facsimile) is usually going to be ridiculous and the speaker knows it on some level.

And I hear you on the social construct thing. It's trying to distance us (society) from our creation. And it's usually pulled out as an attempt to but the kibosh on otherwise enlightening back and forth.

though it seems most often that the people who want to argue that they don't see race don't see it because they're in a position of privilege and therefore can't see it or feel it.
My problem is with the statement in general. Friggin' say you choose to ignore race instead of acting like it filters through you completely. That's some great defense mechanism you have going there, when you can pretend race absolutely does not factor into your thought process.

[army-kitten.livejournal.com]

My problem is with the statement in general. Friggin' say you choose to ignore race instead of acting like it filters through you completely. That's some great defense mechanism you have going there, when you can pretend race absolutely does not factor into your thought process.

exactly. and "defensive" is definitely the word. people really dig their claws in and put their backs up when you tell them they're being fucked up. i hope i didn't sound like i think there's any excuse for it, 'cuz i don't. just because one person does not experience xyz does not mean they get to be oblivious to what happens to everyone else.

[fredericks.livejournal.com]

No, I got you. No one likes to ever think they're in the wrong. It's just human nature.

[anogete.livejournal.com]

I never understood the 'colorblind' comment people tend to make. I'd probably be loopy if I didn't notice the color of someone's skin when I meet them, but that doesn't mean I would ever treat them any differently because of it. To me, it's just like noticing someone's hair color or facial features or whether they wear eyeglasses. It's not something that is going to change anything, but I'm pretty sure I always notice it.

I grew up in West Virginia, and so many people in my family (especially the older generations) liked to pull the fast one where they say, "Oh, he's a really nice guy... for a black guy." I always thought that was such a weird thing to say, and completely offensive to the person you just thought you complemented. I asked my grandfather why he didn't just stop the statement at: "He's a really nice guy." My grandfather gave me a weird look like I'd lost my mind. Living where I do and associating with the people I do, sometimes I forget that there is still such racism in my hometown area. When my mother tells me that my great grandmother wouldn't let my cousin's "mixed babies' into the house, it floors me. I can't imagine thinking like that. It's just a whole different world. And my poor mother gets caught in the middle of it because she loves my cousin's babies, but catches shit from her grandmother because she lets them in her house.

[fredericks.livejournal.com]

That was quite interesting to read. Thank you for sharing.

I can't imagine thinking like that. It's just a whole different world.
It's so ingrained, sometimes trying to communicate about it is like speaking a foreign language. And both parties are saying "well, this is just how it is". Sometimes it just sucks contemplating it.

[anogete.livejournal.com]

As a kid and even a teenager, I tried to reason with my elder relatives about the race issue. It never worked because they didn't know any other way, and they just thought I was a deluded kid trying to tell them something wrong. I gave up trying to change minds in my late teens. To this day, I always express my dislike of any racist statements coming from them, but I don't try to argue my point anymore. Same goes for the gay thing. I always tell anyone who uses derogatory words for homosexual folks that I don't like what they're saying, but I'm certainly not going to change their mind if they're so anti-gay that they call gay people horrible names. I used to be very frustrated by it, but I've let go.

[emily-goddess.livejournal.com]

"I don't see race"

I usually counter with something like, "and isn't it nice to have that luxury?" Mostly I think statements of "colorblindness" are bullshit anyway, but I've yet to convince anyone of that. At least calling attention to their privilege gets through to some people.

[fredericks.livejournal.com]

At least calling attention to their privilege gets through to some people.
True. It's halfsies between getting through to people and getting their hackles up.